Well I dont rule out a creator because so many things were by design. Look at how some animals protect themselves. Take a skunk, that is ingenious, but doubt it was through evolution. Look at a raccoon, cool looking mast dont you think, that's what Hollywood says as well. Look a all males, their penis retracts when not in use, hmm somebody was thinking. No, not evolution but careful breeding by some one. Probably many Somebodies came here and created their own species, that's why we look a little different from continent to continent. who knows how far back it goes, maybe all mammals were created by somebody. But then whales might be smarter than us.
58.) Astronomers have never agreed amongst themselves about a rotating Moon revolving round a rotating and revolving Earth – this Earth, Moon, planets and their satellites all, at the same time dashing through space, around the rotating and revolving Sun, towards the constellation Hercules, at the rate of four millions of miles a day! And they never will: agreement is impossible! With the a Earth a plane and without motion, the whole thing is clear. And if a straw will show which way the wind blows, this may be taken as a pretty strong proof that the Earth is not a globe.
143) People claim that if the Earth were flat, with the Sun circling over and around us, we should be able to see the Sun from everywhere all over the Earth, and there should be daylight even at night-time. Since the Sun is NOT 93 million miles away but rather just a few thousand and shining down like a spotlight, once it has moved significantly far enough away from your location it becomes invisible beyond the horizon and daylight slowly fades until it completely disappears. If the Sun were 93 million miles away and the Earth a spinning ball, the transition from daylight to night would instead be almost instantaneous as you passed the terminator line.
The first main problem with the globe model is that the next solar eclipse on August 21 is coming from the west. We have been told that the moon rotates around the earth from east to west just like the sun. But the moon during the solar eclipse is eclipsing the sun from the WEST. So how does that work on the Ball earth model? They say it’s just an optical illusion because of the angle of the sun. One scientist from NASA said its because the moon rotates from west to east! What? And another scientist said the the moon rotates around the earth twice as fast as the earth spins! Huh? When did that happen? The explanations from NASA get even more confusing and make no sense. If their “science” is so accurate, then why can’t they agree on which way the moon rotates around the earth or how fast it’s going? Something is amiss. Could it be something other than the moon eclipsing the sun?
Astronomers, in their consideration of the supposed "curvature" of the Earth, have carefully avoided the taking of that view of the question which - if anything were needed to do so -would show its utter absurdity. It is this: - if, instead of taking our ideal point of departure to be at Valentia, we consider ourselves at St. John's, the 1665 miles of water between us and Valentia would just as well "curvate" downwards as it did in the other case! Now, since the direction in which the Earth is said to "curvate" is interchangeable - depending, indeed, upon the position occupied by a man upon its surface - the thing is utterly absurd; and it follows that the theory is an outrage , and that the Earth does not "curvate" at all: - an evident proof that the Earth is not a globe.
20. The common sense of man tells him - if nothing else told him - that there is an "up" and a "down" in -nature, even as regards the heavens and the earth; but the theory of modern astronomers necessitates the conclusion that there is not: therefore, 'the theory of the astronomers is opposed to common sense - yes, and to inspiration - and this is a common sense proof that the Earth is not a globe
Another MAJOR problem with the Ball earth model is that the path of the total eclipse shadow that is coming on August 21 in Notth America (and all paths of the solar eclipses) is only 70 miles across! How can a shadow be SMALLER than the object casting the shadow? This is physically impossible! We know from experience that shadows can be the same size or larger than the object casting the shadow, but it can never be smaller. We are told that the moon is 2,159 miles in diameter. So shouldn’t the moon’s shadow on earth be at LEAST 2,159 miles wide? But instead we are given the path of the next eclipse across the United States and it is only 70 miles wide. You have to be in a very specific location to even see the total eclipse.
The problem with the Globe Earth model is that it is completely the opposite of what the Bible says. In the Globe model, there is no separation of waters from the waters below. In fact, there are no waters above. Neither is there a barrier separating earths air from the vacuum of “space”. We are told that “gravity”, an invisible force even “scientists” do not understand, is what holds the air and the water onto the earth. But never has anyone ever been able to produce a real vacuum without a barrier around it to keep the air separated from the vacuumed space. There must be a solid barrier or it does not work. In this way, the globe makes no sense.

60.) There is no problem more important to the astronomer than that of the Sun's distance from the Earth. Every change in the estimate changes everything. NOW, since modern astronomers, in their estimate of this distance, have gone all the way along the line of figures from three millions of miles to a hundred and four millions – today, the distance being something over 91,000,000; it matters not how much: for, not many years ago, Mr. Hind gave the distance, "accurately," as 95,370,000! – it follows that they don't know, and that it is foolish for anyone to expect that they ever will know, the Sun's distance! And since all this speculation and absurdity is caused by the primary assumption that Earth is a wandering, heavenly body, and is all swept away by a knowledge of the fact that Earth is a, plane, it is a clear proof that Earth is not a globe.
Another point concerning timezones, the sun, and Earth: If the sun was a “spotlight” (very directionally located so that light only shines on a specific location) and the world was flat, we would see the sun even if it didn’t shine on top of us (as you can see in the drawing below). Similarly, you can see the light coming out of a spotlight on a stage in the theater, even though you—the crowd—are sitting in the dark. The only way to create two distinctly separate time zones, where there is complete darkness in one while there’s light in the other, is if the world is spherical.
175) Professional photo-analysts have dissected several NASA images of the ball-Earth and found undeniable proof of computer editing. For example, images of the Earth allegedly taken from the Moon have proven to be copied and pasted in, as evidenced by rectangular cuts found in the black background around the “Earth” by adjusting brightness and contrast levels. If they were truly on the Moon and Earth was truly a ball, there would be no need to fake such pictures.
107) Ring magnets of the kind found in loudspeakers have a central North pole with the opposite “South” pole actually being all points along the outer circumference. This perfectly demonstrates the magnetism of our flat Earth, whereas the alleged source of magnetism in the ball-Earth model is emitted from a hypothetical molten magnetic core in the center of the ball which they claim conveniently causes both poles to constantly move thus evading independent verification at their two “ceremonial poles.” In reality the deepest drilling operation in history, the Russian Kola Ultradeep, managed to get only 8 miles down, so the entire ball-Earth model taught in schools showing a crust, outer-mantle, inner-mantle, outer-core and inner-core layers are all purely speculation as we have never penetrated through beyond the crust.
The placement of the sun and moon in the globe model vs. the flat earth model are vastly different from each other. In the modern heliocentric model we are taught that the sun is the center of the solar system, and that it is 109 times the size of earth and 93 million miles away. We are also told it is one of millions of stars in the universe and has its own planetary system. This is proven science, right? If the Bible doesn’t match “proven science” than we assume the Bible is just allegorical and make believe. But, what if it is the opposite? What if the Bible doesn’t match modern “science” because “modern science” is a lie?

There are rivers which flow east, west, north, an south - that is, rivers are flowing in all directions over the Earth's surface, and at the same time. Now, if the Earth were a globe, some of these rivers would be flowing up-hill and others down, taking it for a fact that there really is an "up" and a "down" in nature, whatever form she assumes. But, since rivers do not flow up-hill, and the globular theory requires that they should, it is a proof that the Earth is not a globe.


The evidence for a flat earth is derived from many different facets of science and philosophy. The simplest is by relying on ones own senses to discern the true nature of the world around us. The world looks flat, the bottoms of clouds are flat, the movement of the Sun; these are all examples of your senses telling you that we do not live on a spherical heliocentric world. This is using what's called an empirical approach, or an approach that relies on information from your senses. Alternatively, when using Descartes' method of Cartesian doubt to skeptically view the world around us, one quickly finds that the notion of a spherical world is the theory which has the burden of proof and not flat earth theory.
The surveyor's plans in relation to the laying of the first Atlantic Telegraph cable, show that in 1665 miles - from Valentia, Ireland, to St . John's, Newfoundland - the surface of the Atlantic Ocean is a LEVEL surface - not the astronomers' "level," either! The authoritative drawings, published at the time, are a standing evidence of the fact, and form a practical proof that Earth is not a globe.
31.) If the Earth were a globe, it would certainly have to be as large as it is said to be – twenty-five thousand miles in circumference. Now, the thing which I have called a "proof" of the Earth's roundness, and which is presented to children at school, is, that if we stand on the seashore we may see the ships, as they approach us, absolutely "coming up," and that, as we are able to see the highest parts of these ships first, it is because the lower parts are "behind the earth's curve."Now since if this were the case – that is, if the lower parts of these ships were behind a "hill of water" – the size of the Earth, indicated by such a curve as this, would be so small that it would only be big enough to hold the people of a parish, if they could get all round it, instead of the nations of the world, it follows that the idea is preposterous; that the appearance is due to another and to some reasonable cause; and that, instead of being a proof of the globular form of the Earth, it is a proof that at Earth is not a globe.
50. We read in the inspired book, or collection of books, called THE BIBLE, nothing at all about the Earth being a globe or a planet, from beginning to end, but hundreds of allusions there are in its pages which could not be made if the Earth were a globe, and which are, therefore, said by the astronomer to be absurd and contrary to what he knows to be true! This is the groundwork of modern infidelity. But, since every one of many, many allusions to the Earth and the heavenly bodies in the Scriptures can be demonstrated to be absolutely true to nature, and we read of the Earth being "stretched out" "above the waters," as "standing in the water and out of the water," of its being "established that it cannot be moved," we have a store from which to take all the proofs we need, but we will just put down one proof - the Scriptural proof - that Earth is not a globe.
42) In the ball-Earth model Antarctica is an ice continent which covers the bottom of the ball from 78 degrees South latitude to 90 and is therefore not more than 12,000 miles in circumference. Many early explorers including Captian Cook and James Clark Ross, however, in attempting Antarctic circumnavigation took 3 to 4 years and clocked 50-60,000 miles around. The British ship Challenger also made an indirect but complete circumnavigation of Antarctica traversing 69,000 miles. This is entirely inconsistent with the ball model.
79.) The remark is common enough that we can see the circle of the Earth if we cross the ocean, and that this proves it to be round. Now, if we tie a donkey to a stake on a level common, and he eats the grass all around him, it is only a circular disc that he has to do with, not a spherical mass. Since, then, circular discs may be seen anywhere – as well from a balloon in the air as from the deck of a ship, or from the standpoint of the donkey, it is a proof that the surface of the Earth is a plane surface, and, therefore, a proof that the Earth is not a globe.

If the earth is flat we are held hostage to one of the biggest hoaxes of the last 500 hundred years of human existence. Every day I see evidence of the flat earth. Just look at how at time the clouds are not moving at all --completely still. If the earth was spinning at 1600 klms per hour --how could it be that at times the clouds are completely still not moving in the sky at all.(how could the clouds be moving at the same speed as the rotating earth?)When you look at a long distant horizon --from right to left --there is no curviture in the earth whatsoever. If you try to point this out to people they will think you have lost your mind.. we have been brainwashed to believe a lie which is very difficult to prove to the world populous that there is a flat earth. The deception is wrapped in scientific mumbo jumbo which is very easy to accept as it is backed up by a lot of scientific explanation--if you want to take the easy way out--you just accept that the earth is a globe spinning at 1600 klms per hour . But how does all the water of the seas stay stuck to the planet when the earth is spinning around at 1600 klms per hour? (gravity cannot hold water upside down--water will flow to the lowest point--how can that happen on a spinning globe?)


Most of us in the Western world have been taught from birth that we are living on a spherical earth that spins daily and goes around a giant sun once a year. This is taught as an absolute truth that we should never question. It is “scientific fact”! Or is it? Most Christians are taught that God created a spherical world and that this is what the Bible also teaches. We have learned through public schools and the controlled media that we came to existence through the Big Bang and Evolution, the opposite of what the Bible Teaches. Modern science leads us to believe that the Bible should not be taken seriously as a scientific source. Since the Bible teaches that we were created in six literal days, not by millions of years of evolution, the Bible must be false and allegorical, according to modern “science”. Is the Bible just an allegorical book of stories that are not to be taken seriously? Is the heliocentric model (spherical earth) Biblical? What kind of earth is actually described in Genesis and consistently throughout the Bible? Is there physical and scientific proof to support the Biblical Earth model?


Regarding the "traveling at the same speed" idea. When in an aircraft, two people can toss a ball to each other. From the POV of those Inside, the ball is moving at normal ball tossing speed. From the POV of those outside, the ball is being gently tossed to over 500kph and the catcher catchers it without problem. If this is the "everything on the planet moving at the same speed" idea in action. Which does make it possible to travel in either direction.

If you look out the window on a trans-Atlantic flight, you can, most of the times, see the curvature of the Earth on the horizon. The best view of the curvature used to be on the Concorde, but that plane’s long gone. I can’t wait to see the pictures from the new plane by Virgin Galactic—the horizon should look absolutely curved, as it actually is from a distance.
If we refer to the diagram in "Cornell's Geography," page 4, and notice the ship in its position the most remote from the observer, we shall find that, though it is about 4,000 miles away, it is the same size as the ship that is nearest to him, distant about 700 miles! This a an illustration of the way in which astronomers ignore the laws of perspective. This course is necessary, or they would be compelled to lay bare the fallacy of their dogmas. In short, there is, in this matter, a proof that the Earth is not a globe.

171) NASA claims there are upwards of 20,000 satellites floating around Earth’s upper-atmosphere sending us radio, television, GPS, and taking pictures of the planet. All these supposed satellite pictures, however, are admittedly “composite images, edited in photoshop!” They claim to receive “ribbons of imagery” from satellites which must then be spliced together to create composite images of the Earth, all of which are clearly CGI and not photographs. If Earth were truly a ball with 20,000 satellites orbiting, it would be a simple matter to mount a camera and take some real photographs. The fact that no real satellite photographs of the supposed ball Earth exist in favor of NASA’s “ribbons of composite CG imagery,” is further proof we are not being told the truth.
"Oh, but if the Earth is a plane, we could go to the edge and tumble over!" is a very common assertion. This is a conclusion that is formed too hastily, and facts overthrow it. The Earth certainly is, what man by his observation finds it to be, and what Mr. Proctor himself says it "seems" to be. flat - and we cannot cross the icy barrier which surrounds it. This is a complete answer to the objection, and, of course, a proof that Earth is not a globe.
164) Analysis of many interior videos from the “International Space Station,” have shown the use of camera-tricks such as green-screens, harnesses and even wildly permed hair to achieve a zero-gravity type effect. Footage of astronauts seemingly floating in the zero-gravity of their “space station” is indistinguishable from “vomit comet” Zero-G airplane footage. By flying parabolic maneuvers this Zero-G floating effect can be achieved over and over again then edited together. For longer uncut shots, NASA has been caught using simple wires and green screen technology.
32.) It is often said that, if the Earth were flat, we could see all over it! This is the result of ignorance. If we stand on the level surface a plain or a prairie, and take notice, we shall find that the horizon is formed at about three miles all around us: that is, the ground appears to rise up until, at that distance, it seems on a level with the eye-line or line of sight. Consequently, objects no higher than we stand – say, six feet – and which are at that distance (three miles), have reached the "vanishing point," and are beyond the sphere of our unaided vision. This is the reason why the hull of a ship disappears (in going away from us) before the sails; and, instead of there being about it the faintest shadow of evidence of the, Earth's rotundity, it is a clear proof that Earth is not a globe.
The amazing thing is that we can truly find God when we discover His true creation. There is no longer a false foundation for Atheism and Evolution. God’s Flat Earth can only exist by design, and knowing the reality of His creation leads us to the Bible and salvation in Jesus! The sun is IN THE FIRMAMENT as described in Genesis 1! As you can see in the picture below, the sun is small and close, in the firmament, just as the Bible describes. You can see the sun’s hot spot directly underneath the sun on the clouds, proving it is very close.
The amazing thing is that we can truly find God when we discover His true creation. There is no longer a false foundation for Atheism and Evolution. God’s Flat Earth can only exist by design, and knowing the reality of His creation leads us to the Bible and salvation in Jesus! The sun is IN THE FIRMAMENT as described in Genesis 1! As you can see in the picture below, the sun is small and close, in the firmament, just as the Bible describes. You can see the sun’s hot spot directly underneath the sun on the clouds, proving it is very close.

137) Another assumption and supposed proof of Earth’s shape, heliocentrists claim that lunar eclipses are caused by the shadow of the ball-Earth occulting the Moon. They claim the Sun, Earth, and Moon spheres perfectly align like three billiard balls in a row so that the Sun’s light casts the Earth’s shadow onto the Moon. Unfortunately for heliocentrists, this explanation is rendered completely invalid due to the fact that lunar eclipses have happened and continue to happen regularly when both the Sun and Moon are still visible together above the horizon! For the Sun’s light to be casting Earth’s shadow onto the Moon, the three bodies must be aligned in a straight 180 degree syzygy, but as early as the time of Pliny, there are records of lunar eclipses happening while both the Sun and Moon are visible in the sky. Therefore the eclipsor of the Moon cannot be the Earth/Earth’s shadow and some other explanation must be sought.


The biggest indicators that Supertramp would never reunite came through a couple of interviews with Roger Hodgson. Hodgson interviewed with Billboard in 2012 and talked about the 2010 anniversary. He said of the possibility, “…That was probably the last opportunity for us to do anything together again. And to tell you the truth, I’ve been very, very happy doing what I do. I feel like I’m able to give what I want to give in my shows, but I know there’s certain magic and mystique and a lot of memories connected to the name. I gave it my best shot (billboard.com).” Later in 2015, Hodgson admitted during another interview that a reunion isn’t important to him anymore after the 2010 discussions. He said that Supertramp was a great band and an adventure that ended years ago (abc.es/rogerhodgson.com). Hodgson also  clarified that the current Supertramp is a brand name owned by Rick Davies.

11) A surveyor and engineer of thirty years published in the Birmingham Weekly Mercury stated, “I am thoroughly acquainted with the theory and practice of civil engineering. However bigoted some of our professors may be in the theory of surveying according to the prescribed rules, yet it is well known amongst us that such theoretical measurements are INCAPABLE OF ANY PRACTICAL ILLUSTRATION. All our locomotives are designed to run on what may be regarded as TRUE LEVELS or FLATS. There are, of course, partial inclines or gradients here and there, but they are always accurately defined and must be carefully traversed. But anything approaching to eight inches in the mile, increasing as the square of the distance, COULD NOT BE WORKED BY ANY ENGINE THAT WAS EVER YET CONSTRUCTED. Taking one station with another all over England and Scotland, it may be stated that all the platforms are ON THE SAME RELATIVE LEVEL. The distance between Eastern and Western coasts of England may be set down as 300 miles. If the prescribed curvature was indeed as represented, the central stations at Rugby or Warwick ought to be close upon three miles higher than a chord drawn from the two extremities. If such was the case there is not a driver or stoker within the Kingdom that would be found to take charge of the train. We can only laugh at those of your readers who seriously give us credit for such venturesome exploits, as running trains round spherical curves. Horizontal curves on levels are dangerous enough, vertical curves would be a thousand times worse, and with our rolling stock constructed as at present physically impossible.”
96.) If we refer to the diagram in "Cornell's Geography," page 4, and notice the ship in its position the most remote from the observer, we shall find that, though it is about 4,000 miles away, it is the same size as the ship that is nearest to him, distant about 700 miles! This a an illustration of the way in which astronomers ignore the laws of perspective. This course is necessary, or they would be compelled to lay bare the fallacy of their dogmas. In short, there is, in this matter, a proof that the Earth is not a globe.
It is supposed," in the regular course of the Newtonian theory, that the Earth is, in June, about 190 millions of miles (190,000,000) away from its position in December. Now, since we can, (in middle north latitudes), see the North Star, on looking out of a window that faces it - and out of the very same corner of the very same pane of glass in the very same window - all the year round, it is proof enough for any man in his senses that we have made no motion at all. It is a proof that the Earth is not a globe.
Yes! the earth is flat, just ask the water it will never lie to you , it always seeks its own level, ALWAYS!! That is why we have the term sea level, airplane= air+plane, a thing that flies in the air over a plane. the list can go on and on. I have studied Ancient history for last 30 years read more than 500 books, One must be able to separate what is real and what is not real on many levels to understand truth as it is. remember sound=vibration=frequency on all levels of existence .
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